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	<title>Comments on: Having a false sense of reality can be fun but it can also be dangerous even though some people think reality doesn&#8217;t exist</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lukehoughton.com/2009/04/15/having-a-false-sense-of-reality-can-be-fun-but-it-can-also-be-dangerous-even-though-some-people-think-reality-doesnt-exist/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lukehoughton.com/2009/04/15/having-a-false-sense-of-reality-can-be-fun-but-it-can-also-be-dangerous-even-though-some-people-think-reality-doesnt-exist/</link>
	<description>Luke&#039;s TOE: Thoughts about everything</description>
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		<title>By: Luke Houghton</title>
		<link>http://lukehoughton.com/2009/04/15/having-a-false-sense-of-reality-can-be-fun-but-it-can-also-be-dangerous-even-though-some-people-think-reality-doesnt-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-1952</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Houghton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lukehoughton.com/?p=615#comment-1952</guid>
		<description>Thanks Michael!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Michael!</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. MICHAEL  YANAKIEV</title>
		<link>http://lukehoughton.com/2009/04/15/having-a-false-sense-of-reality-can-be-fun-but-it-can-also-be-dangerous-even-though-some-people-think-reality-doesnt-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-1949</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. MICHAEL  YANAKIEV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lukehoughton.com/?p=615#comment-1949</guid>
		<description>Well advocated Luke !
I enjoyed your thoughts on reality very much indeed and tend to agree with nearly everything. It is great to have such an able young man back on the web. Looking forward for new and interesting insights. Good luck in the enterprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well advocated Luke !<br />
I enjoyed your thoughts on reality very much indeed and tend to agree with nearly everything. It is great to have such an able young man back on the web. Looking forward for new and interesting insights. Good luck in the enterprise.</p>
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		<title>By: AlanAJ01</title>
		<link>http://lukehoughton.com/2009/04/15/having-a-false-sense-of-reality-can-be-fun-but-it-can-also-be-dangerous-even-though-some-people-think-reality-doesnt-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-1948</link>
		<dc:creator>AlanAJ01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lukehoughton.com/?p=615#comment-1948</guid>
		<description>:) I share your frustration. You may not find my latest blog post enlightening, but I think you might enjoy it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://lukehoughton.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I share your frustration. You may not find my latest blog post enlightening, but I think you might enjoy it!</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Houghton</title>
		<link>http://lukehoughton.com/2009/04/15/having-a-false-sense-of-reality-can-be-fun-but-it-can-also-be-dangerous-even-though-some-people-think-reality-doesnt-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-1947</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Houghton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 08:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lukehoughton.com/?p=615#comment-1947</guid>
		<description>I think when you look at natural things it&#039;s fairly easy to say that one cause leads to another... for example your plant metaphor!  But, when we are speaking of people it&#039;s too hard to say what causes what with any degree of satisfaction... and in this sense if we were talking about plants I agree... like produces like (most of the time) and nature is repeatable and predictable.  However... I am not certain about what people are and how context effects the way in which we interact.  

A perspective can&#039;t alter reality, in your sense, because reality is pre-existent and separate to our-selves (dash is meant to be there... think about it!!!). In my mind I am not really interested in whether a perspective changes reality as such, but I am interested in how reality is changed by my perspectives.  To be frank, I have no idea what reality is or if it exists and it&#039;s probably not going to make me any wiser in finding it.  I would say, (and I know I will regret this when I get older), reality is fluid and I can&#039;t understand/comprehend/find or attach myself to it.   Put simply, I am certain something is there, certain with a capital C and there are times when I FEEL a deep sense of it, and I know it.  

My emerging view: 

Reality assumes singular... I think plural and I recently wrote about this for Systems Research and Behavioral Science. I think most of the time we look for cause instead of reasons or purpose or lesson... what are the systemic lessons?  What is the deeper purpose... is there even one?  I think there is, and perhaps I am right, or maybe there isn&#039;t and perhaps I am wrong?

Anyway, I have no real fixed view... just some dusty (rusty) ideas!  What I am interested in right now is what are the connections between the imagination and reality... as in how does one form and the shape the other (vice versa too).  Maybe that will help me understand this better!  Then again, I could just go watch tv...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think when you look at natural things it&#8217;s fairly easy to say that one cause leads to another&#8230; for example your plant metaphor!  But, when we are speaking of people it&#8217;s too hard to say what causes what with any degree of satisfaction&#8230; and in this sense if we were talking about plants I agree&#8230; like produces like (most of the time) and nature is repeatable and predictable.  However&#8230; I am not certain about what people are and how context effects the way in which we interact.  </p>
<p>A perspective can&#8217;t alter reality, in your sense, because reality is pre-existent and separate to our-selves (dash is meant to be there&#8230; think about it!!!). In my mind I am not really interested in whether a perspective changes reality as such, but I am interested in how reality is changed by my perspectives.  To be frank, I have no idea what reality is or if it exists and it&#8217;s probably not going to make me any wiser in finding it.  I would say, (and I know I will regret this when I get older), reality is fluid and I can&#8217;t understand/comprehend/find or attach myself to it.   Put simply, I am certain something is there, certain with a capital C and there are times when I FEEL a deep sense of it, and I know it.  </p>
<p>My emerging view: </p>
<p>Reality assumes singular&#8230; I think plural and I recently wrote about this for Systems Research and Behavioral Science. I think most of the time we look for cause instead of reasons or purpose or lesson&#8230; what are the systemic lessons?  What is the deeper purpose&#8230; is there even one?  I think there is, and perhaps I am right, or maybe there isn&#8217;t and perhaps I am wrong?</p>
<p>Anyway, I have no real fixed view&#8230; just some dusty (rusty) ideas!  What I am interested in right now is what are the connections between the imagination and reality&#8230; as in how does one form and the shape the other (vice versa too).  Maybe that will help me understand this better!  Then again, I could just go watch tv&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: AlanAJ01</title>
		<link>http://lukehoughton.com/2009/04/15/having-a-false-sense-of-reality-can-be-fun-but-it-can-also-be-dangerous-even-though-some-people-think-reality-doesnt-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-1946</link>
		<dc:creator>AlanAJ01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 01:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lukehoughton.com/?p=615#comment-1946</guid>
		<description>No, I can&#039;t bring myself to accept that &quot;reality is a concept&quot;! It is useful to distinguish &quot;natural&quot;, &quot;social&quot; and personal realities here, although such distinctions are more conceptual than real. For me, a &quot;concept&quot; can exist only in personal or social reality. In relation to natural reality, concepts are always artificial constructs, existing in personal and/or social reality and relating with some degree of fidelity to some aspect of natural reality.

My personal reality is a world of models. My models of my personal reality incorporate representations of natural and social realities, of course, but also of my personal reality. In this very pragmatic sense, then, reality &quot;is&quot; a concept; it is not, in truth, a concept, but the realities are unreal to me unless they exist as concepts in my personal reality.

For me, a change in perspective, in and of itself, in no way alters reality. What it does is generate a different model of some aspect of reality. This constitutes a change in my personal reality. But even viewing my personal reality differently does not alter the personal reality being viewed, only the view of that reality.

So much for myself on, as it were, the receiving end of reality. When it comes to sustaining and developing reality, personal, social or natural, there are cases (and it may even be the rule) where a change to a model of reality leads to a change in the reality modelled. How this happens is part of reality. And how we think it happens is part of our model of reality. But our personal reality is crucially dependent on both how we relate to reality and how we believe we relate to reality. If we don&#039;t believe plants will grow from seeds, we probably won&#039;t sow any seeds. But if we believe plants grow from sand, sowing sand probably won&#039;t yield many plants!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I can&#8217;t bring myself to accept that &#8220;reality is a concept&#8221;! It is useful to distinguish &#8220;natural&#8221;, &#8220;social&#8221; and personal realities here, although such distinctions are more conceptual than real. For me, a &#8220;concept&#8221; can exist only in personal or social reality. In relation to natural reality, concepts are always artificial constructs, existing in personal and/or social reality and relating with some degree of fidelity to some aspect of natural reality.</p>
<p>My personal reality is a world of models. My models of my personal reality incorporate representations of natural and social realities, of course, but also of my personal reality. In this very pragmatic sense, then, reality &#8220;is&#8221; a concept; it is not, in truth, a concept, but the realities are unreal to me unless they exist as concepts in my personal reality.</p>
<p>For me, a change in perspective, in and of itself, in no way alters reality. What it does is generate a different model of some aspect of reality. This constitutes a change in my personal reality. But even viewing my personal reality differently does not alter the personal reality being viewed, only the view of that reality.</p>
<p>So much for myself on, as it were, the receiving end of reality. When it comes to sustaining and developing reality, personal, social or natural, there are cases (and it may even be the rule) where a change to a model of reality leads to a change in the reality modelled. How this happens is part of reality. And how we think it happens is part of our model of reality. But our personal reality is crucially dependent on both how we relate to reality and how we believe we relate to reality. If we don&#8217;t believe plants will grow from seeds, we probably won&#8217;t sow any seeds. But if we believe plants grow from sand, sowing sand probably won&#8217;t yield many plants!</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Houghton</title>
		<link>http://lukehoughton.com/2009/04/15/having-a-false-sense-of-reality-can-be-fun-but-it-can-also-be-dangerous-even-though-some-people-think-reality-doesnt-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-1944</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Houghton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lukehoughton.com/?p=615#comment-1944</guid>
		<description>Hi Alan, 

I am not sure if I have posted this on this blog or not before... but yes I believe in reality too!  Probably closer to the critical realist version (on-going mechanisms and social transformations created and sustained by human workings!).  I think of it this way: it&#039;s useful for me to think that reality exists, because the alternative is that reality doesn&#039;t exist.  Now, reality is a concept, and that concept has at it&#039;s heart the perceptions of human souls trying to work out what life means.  I used to think that &#039;sense making&#039; was all we did... that is we place our beliefs over reality and that&#039;s what reality is... then I read a boatload of work by Bhaskar and some of the post modernists and got me thinking.  Reality, in my opinion is a concept, but as for existence, there is natural reality which I can observe... trees etc and then there is social reality.  I take social reality to be conceptual but ontogical.  I think there are levels to it as Bhaskar does... but more like vertical integration as opposed to horizontal! 

Now I realise that a realist ontology and subjectivist epistemology may no may sense... but I have to live with it.  It&#039;s me.  I used to spend hours and I mean HOURS speculating on this but pragma took over!  Bills, bills, bills.  I agree that the change of perspective, changes the way we relate to reality and I will admit some of the posts I have written for this blog is me being arrogant and silly by claiming that reality can&#039;t exist and so on.  It would be nice but it&#039;s very useful for me to believe that.  I have spent the best part of 8 years trying to understand how different &#039;realities&#039; construct and create themselves to intertwine messes... I have reached the conclusion that I still have a lot to learn.  At it&#039;s heart my core concept of perspective shifting relates to different ways to &#039;see&#039; reality.  Looking through a new window often reveals new ways of seeing things, that were previous obscured by improper perspectives.  Yet, does this mean that if I change my perspective, my reality changes ergo reality is pliable and doesn&#039;t exist?  I think not... that would be too easy.  I believe the fabric of reality is perceptions, thoughts and ideas but the building blocks are what we agree on and the action we take.  So in other words... the jury is out and I don&#039;t know! :D

Voltaire was right of course about gardens and weeds.  I have learned by experience that you often get what you always wanted, desired and thought about.  I think we can enjoy the fruit of our labours, but if we don&#039;t cultivate better plants in better soil, our labours may take the shape of something outside of our control.  I am reminded here of the money guy (Rich Dad, Poor Dad).  He said, instead of saying I can&#039;t say how can I?  Two different questions that pose two very different streams of thought. 

Thanks Alan... I am not sure I responded but as always I enjoy what you have to say :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Alan, </p>
<p>I am not sure if I have posted this on this blog or not before&#8230; but yes I believe in reality too!  Probably closer to the critical realist version (on-going mechanisms and social transformations created and sustained by human workings!).  I think of it this way: it&#8217;s useful for me to think that reality exists, because the alternative is that reality doesn&#8217;t exist.  Now, reality is a concept, and that concept has at it&#8217;s heart the perceptions of human souls trying to work out what life means.  I used to think that &#8216;sense making&#8217; was all we did&#8230; that is we place our beliefs over reality and that&#8217;s what reality is&#8230; then I read a boatload of work by Bhaskar and some of the post modernists and got me thinking.  Reality, in my opinion is a concept, but as for existence, there is natural reality which I can observe&#8230; trees etc and then there is social reality.  I take social reality to be conceptual but ontogical.  I think there are levels to it as Bhaskar does&#8230; but more like vertical integration as opposed to horizontal! </p>
<p>Now I realise that a realist ontology and subjectivist epistemology may no may sense&#8230; but I have to live with it.  It&#8217;s me.  I used to spend hours and I mean HOURS speculating on this but pragma took over!  Bills, bills, bills.  I agree that the change of perspective, changes the way we relate to reality and I will admit some of the posts I have written for this blog is me being arrogant and silly by claiming that reality can&#8217;t exist and so on.  It would be nice but it&#8217;s very useful for me to believe that.  I have spent the best part of 8 years trying to understand how different &#8216;realities&#8217; construct and create themselves to intertwine messes&#8230; I have reached the conclusion that I still have a lot to learn.  At it&#8217;s heart my core concept of perspective shifting relates to different ways to &#8216;see&#8217; reality.  Looking through a new window often reveals new ways of seeing things, that were previous obscured by improper perspectives.  Yet, does this mean that if I change my perspective, my reality changes ergo reality is pliable and doesn&#8217;t exist?  I think not&#8230; that would be too easy.  I believe the fabric of reality is perceptions, thoughts and ideas but the building blocks are what we agree on and the action we take.  So in other words&#8230; the jury is out and I don&#8217;t know! <img src='http://lukehoughton.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Voltaire was right of course about gardens and weeds.  I have learned by experience that you often get what you always wanted, desired and thought about.  I think we can enjoy the fruit of our labours, but if we don&#8217;t cultivate better plants in better soil, our labours may take the shape of something outside of our control.  I am reminded here of the money guy (Rich Dad, Poor Dad).  He said, instead of saying I can&#8217;t say how can I?  Two different questions that pose two very different streams of thought. </p>
<p>Thanks Alan&#8230; I am not sure I responded but as always I enjoy what you have to say <img src='http://lukehoughton.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: AlanAJ01</title>
		<link>http://lukehoughton.com/2009/04/15/having-a-false-sense-of-reality-can-be-fun-but-it-can-also-be-dangerous-even-though-some-people-think-reality-doesnt-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-1940</link>
		<dc:creator>AlanAJ01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lukehoughton.com/?p=615#comment-1940</guid>
		<description>To talk of reality in the context of the effects of belief, harmful or otherwise, seems to me to be missing the point. For the record, I believe that reality exists! I also believe that my perception of reality is both limited and inaccurate. Nevertheless, it is only through my perception of reality that reality can affect me.

Belief is in and of the mind. And if you identify yourself with your mind, you are a product of your belief. But you are not, in fact, what you believe you are, any more than reality is what it seems to be. Nor can you actually choose what your beliefs are, though they may be changed by your attitude towards them. Reality is what it is and you are what you are, though we misperceive reality and ourselves. How, I wonder, does a more accurate perception of reality or ourselves affect how we feel and how we behave? Does it help?

The answer, I think, is that it may do. But it depends what your goal is. If how you feel is unacceptable to you then you must change your perception of yourself or of your reality (and, most probably, both). If reality exists, it seems unwise to pursue a perception of reality that is at odds with the true reality, but there is (quite literally) a world of difference between &quot;accurate&quot; and &quot;not liable to be disproven&quot;. And if there is some core of reality within ourselves that is liable to intrude upon our perception come what may, it is similarly unwise to wish that this reality were different, though we may seek to make it less intrusive. 

I feel how I feel but I may not always feel this way. I do not deny my perception but nor am I convinced that I am its prisoner. Change, it seems to me, is inevitable and my judgment of the present may be a factor in determining the future. But what if the future will be very like the present? Can I live with that? As Voltaire said: &quot;il faut cultiver notre jardin&quot;. We may not be around to enjoy the fruits of our labours but if we don&#039;t cultivate our garden, we can expect to be surrounded by a wilderness of weeds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To talk of reality in the context of the effects of belief, harmful or otherwise, seems to me to be missing the point. For the record, I believe that reality exists! I also believe that my perception of reality is both limited and inaccurate. Nevertheless, it is only through my perception of reality that reality can affect me.</p>
<p>Belief is in and of the mind. And if you identify yourself with your mind, you are a product of your belief. But you are not, in fact, what you believe you are, any more than reality is what it seems to be. Nor can you actually choose what your beliefs are, though they may be changed by your attitude towards them. Reality is what it is and you are what you are, though we misperceive reality and ourselves. How, I wonder, does a more accurate perception of reality or ourselves affect how we feel and how we behave? Does it help?</p>
<p>The answer, I think, is that it may do. But it depends what your goal is. If how you feel is unacceptable to you then you must change your perception of yourself or of your reality (and, most probably, both). If reality exists, it seems unwise to pursue a perception of reality that is at odds with the true reality, but there is (quite literally) a world of difference between &#8220;accurate&#8221; and &#8220;not liable to be disproven&#8221;. And if there is some core of reality within ourselves that is liable to intrude upon our perception come what may, it is similarly unwise to wish that this reality were different, though we may seek to make it less intrusive. </p>
<p>I feel how I feel but I may not always feel this way. I do not deny my perception but nor am I convinced that I am its prisoner. Change, it seems to me, is inevitable and my judgment of the present may be a factor in determining the future. But what if the future will be very like the present? Can I live with that? As Voltaire said: &#8220;il faut cultiver notre jardin&#8221;. We may not be around to enjoy the fruits of our labours but if we don&#8217;t cultivate our garden, we can expect to be surrounded by a wilderness of weeds.</p>
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