Those techniques do work in the world as well as they do in many other circles. I think we need to find our way in whatever way we can. Thanks for your comment Michael.

Luke

I also have suspicions that racism may play a part in some degree.

I pray, read the word enjoy fellowship with my wife instead..

I have difficulties socializing, there was a time many years ago i could not wait to go to a service, bible study, no more!

I blame the “cliques” of the church. These are people who think their poop don’t smell…

I actually told one the associates pastors over the phone that this church is run by “yes” men.. suck ups! people who try their best to curry favor with the pastor and his family…

It’s amazing how the techniques of the world work within the church too..

I think you have described the problem well. The church puts people on pedestals which isn’t normal. Yet, instead of being normal, our pastors create the visage of perfection. I can’t work that part of it out but I can understand why they do it. I enjoyed the revelation part of it, and I miss parts of it. But, for me, I couldn’t get over the pretending… which is a bad thing to say so I had to leave. I still miss certain parts of the church experience given that I was in a Charismatic church and they are so vibrant but I can live with myself now if that makes sense.

Thanks for your comment,

Luke

I am also at a crossroads with “church.” I love god, love revelation, and haven’t been bitten too much by Christians. I’ve been going to my church for over 2 decades, and not only loved it but have found a wonderful community of friends here. But now it feels like I’ve seen behind the curtain and the wizard is just a man – not a bad man at all – just a man. And I don’t want the “obligation” of it anymore. So how do I take myself out of the congregation without ripping apart my place in the community? (Not that you need to answer that…just need to put it out in the cosmos!

I would like to say a few things to encourage you and others here who have expressed similar concerns of losing faith in God, especially through trials. Be forewarned: I say what most people are afraid to say, thus my personal motto: “I’LL say it FOR you!”

Churchianity sucks. Jesus doesn’t.

I have only one LORD, and his name is YAHWEH, YESHUA, JESUS, EL SHADDAI, ADONAI, and so forth. I bow only to HIM, not some “middleman.”

Churchianity is all about a form of godliness, denying the truth thereof. New versions are corrupt. Hierarchy is not scriptural. Jesus never changed the Sabbath!
Denominations are only necessary in the area of FINANCE.

If I were to judge Christ by most professed “Christians”, I’d have him HUNG! God isn’t disgusting — PEOPLE ARE. (The heart of man is deceitful above all things and very wicked; who can know it?”)

The bible (the real one) is true no matter what; no matter if it seems to be or not, no matter if we like what it says or not, no matter if we agree with it or not, no matter if we understand it or not. God’s word is PURE.

As far as losing faith in God, I’ve been there, though not enough to stop yelling at him and cursing him. (Not recommended, BTW.)

I was comparing my “life” to other Christians’ “lives” instead of just seeking God. Well, as I’ve alluded to before, and now KNOW, they don’t really have lives I want! I complained to God one time about how a pastor who’d been preaching a few things incorrectly was so blessed with a family, a nice house, two nice cars, nice clothes, etc., etc., etc. I asked God, “Why can’t I have what they have?!” He asked, “Do you really want what they have?” The unasked question behind that was, “Do you want to have a lack of knowledge and revelation in certain areas as well as the house, cars, etc.?”

God has richly blessed me with faith, but I must say I have endured trials and persecutions I’d wish on few, never understanding WHY!!! this has happened to ME! In retrospect, and with the backup of scripture, I entered into fellowship with Christ’s sufferings (Paul wrote). In short, if you’re not facing anything, you’re not much threat to kingdom of darkness. Think about it…….

During the Cold War, did the US “take aim with missiles” toward CANADA? NO! Canada is not and has not been a THREAT! You only aim your weapons toward one who THREATENS YOU! Yeah, the trials and persecutions suck dead rats from the sewers of Saskatchewan, but it comes with the territory of a believer!

The fat comfortable, arrogant cats and kittens at “church” —IS THAT WHO OR HOW YOU WANT TO BE??!! DO YOU WANT WHAT THEY HAVE???!!! (Rhetorical question.)

I could go on forever (and God knows it) stopping only to sleep or eat. That’s why I’ve decided to be a writer. I’ve had plenty of books I’ve wanted to write for so many years, ALL inspired by the very things I detest! Certainly all things work together for our good. We just don’t see that until we’re on the other side of a trial. Anyway, Luke, and others of like mind, it will probably be a year or few before my books start hitting (if and when published), so I have a blog I haven’t contributed to for quite some time but there is plenty there if you’d like to read something from another person who doesn’t go to church.

In the meanwhile, know that God doesn’t give you any more than ye are able to bear, and if it seems like a lot it’s because GOD KNOWS YOU CAN TAKE IT WHERE ANOTHER WOULD NOT MAKE IT! (See entries 2 and 3 on my blogpage along these lines. ‘-)

http://www.toenquireiswise.blogspot.com

GOD IS LOVE AND HE SURE LOVES YOU! AND I DON’T CARE WHO YOU ARE! YAHU! (That’s Hebrew for ‘God is’)

love, love, love, love, love to you all.

Jan

Trials are inevitable, but it doesn’t hurt to ask for a brief respite!

I think you can. I know exactly how you feel, especially about the bible promises. I read that and I can feel the heartache. All I can say at this time is that there is a life outside the church and so much more meaning that the four walls. That said, I am still finding my way… and it’s cost me a whole lot people I used to know.

Thanks Dee.

It’s funny how God seemingly used me to help others, but he provides no help to me. It sort of proves that all those versus/promises whatever you want to call them are empty sayings that sounds really good but has no substance, you know what I mean? For example Luke 6:38, Micah 3:10, Matthew 6:1-8 and so many other examples. I just cannot believe what I am going through. I thought maybe I would have to deal more with being rediculed for my faith which I can understand and even losing a job or something because of my faith, but I never thought that I would have to deal with losing my church and support and my faith in the bible versus/promises. I have come to the conclusion that we really cannot understand what the versus mean we can just guess and hope we are right. You are right about I am now a different person too and can never go back to who I used to be.

Anyway I hope you find answers in a way that will satisfy you and your family and you can lead a productive life. I hope I can find that way too.

I think I can understand better than most how you feel. Except for me it was more like half or a quarter of the time that you spent in service so to speak. I am not sure I have an answer for disillusionment, if I did I would have posted it already. Some people who have posted here have mentioned that: It’s the people not the creator and so on. At this point in time I feel the exact same way you do. I feel like my relationship with God has been pushed passed the breaking point. Perhaps a better way of saying is that my relationship with ‘religious experience’ has been pushed to the breaking point. Maybe my concept of God was wrong to start with because I felt that if I gave something when I needed help it would be abundantly supplied? Whatever the case is, I know this: I have changed and I can’t change back even if all of those hopes and dreams where here I am not sure I could ever be who I was back then. I hope that makes sense! I wish I had the answer, I really do.

The biggest hurt of all is part of me wants desperately to believe in those things but the hurt and pain which you also feel (I suspect), drives me away from that into a place where all I have is pain. Who wants to stay there, I don’t so it’s natural to navigate away from God altogether into an uncomfortable abyss where you just don’t think about it. If you were as hardcore as I was, you know deep down that you can’t go back to that. Part of me died. The worst part for me is that I seem to have lost faith in God and I can’t get it back even though at times it makes perfect sense to me. I have somehow slipped into the middle ground between God and Athiesm without even trying. All because of so many hurts, deceptions and false beliefs dumped on me by church and my experiences there. In a sense I am fractured because of that. How does one recover from that? Do you or can you? I seriously doubt it! In your case and mine I would love to know.

The other thing that struck me was your length of service. That’s incredible to put so much of your energy into something for so long! I know a man who has done a similar thing and put an incredible amount of time into running an aid organisation on a wage that is worse than a bad joke. It’s people like you that give other people hope and support when they need it and that impresses me. Big ‘megachurches’ wouldn’t run if it wasn’t for the people who worship and support the big name pastors and I believe you understand this. As your case and about a million others I have seen prove, churches can literally drive people to emotional and physical burn out. I would love to say that I have never heard of this before but it’s SO common.

The worst part of it all is that at the end of the day we were just trying to be faithful to what we believed. The price for that is so high that it ends up costing your faith. Dee Dee, I hope that you have someone you can talk to for support, I was lucky to have my wife and a close friend who helped me through my emotional burn out.

Thanks for your comment.

It’s like being married your entire life to someone you love and you believe they love you, and at the end of your life you find out that he had a different family during your entire marriage. It was all a lie and you can’t go back to relive it again and make different choices. I really truely believe my relationship with God is unreconcilable. I am so heartbroken.

I feel your pain. I suffer from depression from time to time and often I don’t feel God has a lot to do with it. I get people telling me to fight it, create all kinds of methods of ‘casting it out’. But, all I ever want is someone to understand. There are times when I question God (like now for example, I am about to lose my job) so I wondering where God is. I am not comforted by the scriptures at all. At times I am left alone with no answers except the fact that I am going through something I can’t control and ultimately have no say in. I have no faith for those things … even though I know I should. 2 Corinthians 12 Paul talks about being weak and just last week I was talking with an ex-pastor about this. He said that Jesus never asked us to be strong, he asked us to be us. He covers our sins and holds our weaknesses. I think there is a need for people to be people and have problems. Instead of what we have now. My two cents.

What a great message you left. Thanks so much.

And they tend to be some of the most judgmental people I know. What they say or think of an unwed mother with a child isn’t relevant. The only judgment that matters to her is going to be what God says on the day she dies and those who pointed the finger at her are going to be judged by God for that when they die.

And why do they have to act to hypocritical? They act like life is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong and all you hear is “God blessed me with this” and “I praise God for that.” It isn’t even HUMAN to be happy 24/7? I have yet to meet someone who has been happy every second of their life. Acting like you’re happy 100% of the time even when you’re not comes across as fake. Why can’t they show a little emotion? Be relatable to people? Be real! One of the reasons that people don’t like coming to church and talking to Christians is because they aren’t being relatable or real. Instead of claiming that God is always blessing them and praising God for everything, why can’t they admit that they aren’t perfect? Why can’t they say things like “Satan tempted me” and “I questioned God today?” THAT would make them more real. Even Jesus, God’s son, was tempted by Satan. Even Jesus questioned God when he was dying on the cross, “My God, My Father, why have You forsaken me?” If we can’t even admit that we’re tempted or admit that we don’t trust God every moment of every day then we’re saying that we’re better than Jesus, and he was the best of us! No one can compare to him and yet by saying these things and acting this way it’s like we are claiming that we are better than him.
Besides, nowhere in the Bible does it say that you have to go to church. Hebrews 10:24 says “let us consider other first, to encourage each other in love and good works.” All that basically means is that we need to have some sort of Christian support system. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a church. It could be a small group of Christian friends meeting for coffee.

Sorry about the rant, but it’s always comforting to know that I’m not the only one who has problems with the church.

I would love to hear that message you and preparing and good on you for deciding to do that. That is noble indeed. I agree with June about the baby, I think showing love where it’s usually taken about is a really good thing. June and Tim thanks for the comments here.

Your comments remind me of a friend of mine who studies gender in farming communities. From what she tells me, it’s a real partnership. I am sorry for your loss.

Luke

June